tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-827769867360256958.post5552073504633811128..comments2024-01-14T03:16:09.597-08:00Comments on Kindke's Scrap Notes: Ketogenesis, & Calorie restriction increases fatty acid synthesisKindkehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15841418412425329998noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-827769867360256958.post-28103678186497306262013-07-11T00:36:22.980-07:002013-07-11T00:36:22.980-07:00BTW thanks for the study I need to read it in deta...BTW thanks for the study I need to read it in detail when I have time.Kindkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15841418412425329998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-827769867360256958.post-65126073909908127532013-07-11T00:33:30.366-07:002013-07-11T00:33:30.366-07:00im a psychotic lipogensis freak :D
Simply because...im a psychotic lipogensis freak :D<br /><br />Simply because I think its real in humans, I dont trust all those studies attempting to show lipogenesis is insignificant in humans I think its bollocks.<br /><br />I rapidly gain weight on a 5% fat, 75% carbohyrate diet of mostly whole foods ex potato/banana. And it AINT water weight either, there is a rapid expansion of the mid section and inner thighs.Kindkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15841418412425329998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-827769867360256958.post-11102819781137658772013-07-10T09:56:59.455-07:002013-07-10T09:56:59.455-07:00http://jn.nutrition.org/content/116/12/2536.full.p...http://jn.nutrition.org/content/116/12/2536.full.pdf<br /><br />This will be my last post on this thread (just to make sure nobody starts thinking I'm on a psychotic lipogenesis-inspired binge or anything like that).<br />------------------------------------------------<br />Dynamics of Recovery of Body Composition After Overfeeding, Food Restriction or Starvation of Mature Female Rats1<br />-----------------------------------------------------------------------<br />Punchline; with the food restriction, lipogenesis is upregulated, during starvation it isn't. The authors suggest starvation is an extended period of lipolysis, the push is in that direction, little need for lipogenesis, since there's little available substrate anyways.<br /><br /><br /><br />"Starved rats regained protein earlier than body<br />fat. Restricted rats recovered body fat much earlier than body protein or weight."<br /><br />Despite the early differences, if I'm reading things right in figure four, the starved rats don't end up any leaner in the long term.donnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02107555662488785352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-827769867360256958.post-62337028400013449292013-07-06T21:02:22.810-07:002013-07-06T21:02:22.810-07:00You might be sceptical until you learn why these r...You might be sceptical until you learn why these restrictions extend life. I wouldn't recommend calorie/methionine restriction per se but it does causes a shift to fat burning which itself causes less damage to cellular components such as DNA and telomeres. Humans who have a defect in mitochondrial complex I live longer despite eating like everyone around them. Inhibition of complex II shortens life. Glucose uses primarily complex I, which leaks more ROS, while lipids use mainly the least leaky complex II. <br /><br />Also, when you genetically modify animals or give them drugs to up regulate or down regulate the genes affected by CR, MR (and keto), such as insulin, IFG-1, AMPK, SIRT1, mTOR or FOXO, the animals live longer without the dietary restrictions. I find it compelling enough to keep on with LCHF. <br /><br /> Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01837381935438144443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-827769867360256958.post-40236108998711456962013-07-06T06:09:40.085-07:002013-07-06T06:09:40.085-07:00I could imagine it making a big difference... pubm...I could imagine it making a big difference... pubmed gives me nothing particularly relevant when I search intermittent fasting + fat synthesis... In Jenkin's glucose bolus vs sipping experiments, postingestion respiratory quotient was higher with the bolus, suggesting the possibility of increased fat synthesis. Also that study that Flatt and Acheson(?) did in three subjects with massive overfeeding of carbs--fat synthesis didn't get into full gear until glycogen stores were saturated--it might not be a matter of saturating glycogen stores so much as carbohydrate coming into the system faster than it could be sequestered.<br /><br /> I guess it's always possible the food window is even secondary to the fat synthesis--an increased ability to sequester carbohydrate as bodyfat promoting an increase in the rate of eating. In the overfeeding study, it's possible that glycogen storage didn't become saturated, so much as fatty acid synthesis ramped up to the point where glycogen stores stopped increasing, there being an alternative route to dispose of glucose.donnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02107555662488785352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-827769867360256958.post-59193332024486595652013-07-05T23:37:45.675-07:002013-07-05T23:37:45.675-07:00re: feeding window
yeh im not sure how much of a ...re: feeding window<br /><br />yeh im not sure how much of a different that would make though. Although it is kind of a bad control of variables. Eating fat should not increase fatty acid synthesis, thats a positive feedback mechanism, and these tend to be much rarer in biology.<br /><br />One study found that fatty acid synthase enzyme was 2.4fold higher in adipocytes of obese vs lean people. <br /><br />In conclusion, although it is not possible to establish a true causability chain, our data are compatible with the notion that increased FASN expression in adipose tissue links excess energy intake and accumulation of body fat. Thereby, adipose FASN mRNA expression is significantly related to obesity, predominantly visceral fat accumulation, impaired insulin sensitivity and circulating adipokines. Moreover, in addition to chronic hyperinsulinaemia, elevated leptin and RBP4 serum concentrations in obesity might contribute to increased FASN expression. Thus, inhibition of FASN specifically in adipose tissue may be a promising therapeutic approach in the prevention and treatment of obesity and its complications.<br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17492427Kindkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15841418412425329998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-827769867360256958.post-35950020874170537882013-07-05T09:14:13.771-07:002013-07-05T09:14:13.771-07:00I shoulda read the study before the graph. CR Mice...I shoulda read the study before the graph. CR Mice ate most of their food in a one hour period, ad-libs ate all day. donnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02107555662488785352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-827769867360256958.post-6101761001824183012013-07-05T07:43:46.240-07:002013-07-05T07:43:46.240-07:00Also, figure 2 in the calorie restriction-fat synt...Also, figure 2 in the calorie restriction-fat synthesis study is interesting.<br /><br />`Calorie restriction increases fatty acid synthesis and whole body fat oxidation rates`<br /><br />If you compare the one chart showing respiratory exchange ratio from initial feeding for the ad-lib group, to the restricted feeding group charts, I think there`s strong evidence that the restricted mice fed in an increasingly shortened window--so maybe in a way, this is sort of an overfeeding experiment, as during feeding, carbs fed per unit time goes up (until the mouse runs out of food, at least).donnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02107555662488785352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-827769867360256958.post-39641750741378650832013-07-05T07:26:19.043-07:002013-07-05T07:26:19.043-07:00I`m extremely skeptical when it comes to the benef...I`m extremely skeptical when it comes to the benefits of calorie restriction and especially of methionine restriction. Purified diet restriction isn`t the same as restricting real food, and we should never assume that it is. Benefit of diet restriction may depend on the nature of the diet going in.<br /><br />To restrict just methionine, researchers resorted to a diet where the protein requirements were satisfied by isolated amino acids, instead of full proteins. There`s no reason to assume that eating low-methionine protein will yield the same result as exchanging methionine for glutamic acid in a purified diet will. <br /><br />Funny with the fat synthesis and calorie restriction--you always see those carbohydrate overfeeding studies in humans where fat synthesis is negligible. <br /><br />I wonder what would have happened if the mice ate more fat, and less carbohydrate?<br />donnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02107555662488785352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-827769867360256958.post-71888574920997385732013-07-03T21:29:42.010-07:002013-07-03T21:29:42.010-07:00I just went through some fat tissue-destroing proc...I just went through some fat tissue-destroing procidure by kavitation equipment while slightly calorie-restricted. About 10 lb and 2 inches are gone.Galina L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09156132815504279615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-827769867360256958.post-26200956779601882862013-07-03T10:09:51.634-07:002013-07-03T10:09:51.634-07:00I find this interesting regarding longevity. This ...I find this interesting regarding longevity. This also happens in methionine restriction. There is an increase in DNL and fat burning. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20538896 <br /><br /> Calorie restricted humans have higher levels of FFA in the blood. No doubt the same thing is happening in them. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2829643/pdf/11357_2009_Article_9118.pdf<br /><br /> If you're interested in longevity at all, you might want to take a look at this paper. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755292/Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01837381935438144443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-827769867360256958.post-25638931751651450612013-07-03T01:24:49.800-07:002013-07-03T01:24:49.800-07:00Very interesting, especially the DNL part!
Regard...Very interesting, especially the DNL part!<br /><br />Regarding glucagon, I guess it shouldn't be surprising. If you think about type 1 diabetics and blocking glucagon ( -->hyperlipid), no insulin (which inhibits the action of glucagon to some degree) + glucagon = unrestrained ketogenesis leading to ketoacidosis. insulin + glucoagon = happy balance, hopefully. no insulin + glucagon inhibition = also somewhat of a happy place<br /><br />Regarding calorie restriction.. maybe the answer is -75% one day, +25% the other? <br />http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049512002569Purposelessnesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05310957056111105419noreply@blogger.com