An interesting video on trenbolone, what I like is the fact this guy has done the research and there are some interesting points, he explains all the in the video.
of note, his research again supports the idea of nutrient partitioning, trenbolone apparently causes massive insulin sensitivity in muscle, ( glut4 ) . This is as opposed to increased insulin sensitivity in adipose tissue, ( glut4 ), which causes fat gain.
So the point seems to be, where is the insulin sensitivity and in particular where is the glut4? That plays a big part in where your "calories" go. The same is also true for LPL. Skeletal muscle LPL protects against fat gain, while adipose LPL increases fat gain. ( link )
For the record, I dont agree with everything this guy says, im just sharing an interesting video.
Off topic, but disturbing that some men inject animal growth drugs to gain muscle and lose fat. The irony is many would argue dieting to be thin is "unhealthy". Being thin and under eating while perhaps psychologically a sign/cause of poor mental health, from a physical perspective endocrine and metabolic wise being underweight can actually ward off many diseases like cancers, metabolic disease and so on. Protein restriction and dietary energy restriction, hypothetically, can be longevity promoting via arresting growth axes / insulin signalling in body.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if even when accounting for death related to direct complications of drug use, if being a body builder may shorten lifespan. Given they are always in a highly anabolic state with elevated growth hormones I would assume so.
" but disturbing that some men inject animal growth drugs to gain muscle and lose fat. "
Deletenot really, no more disturbing than when females surgically implant silicon under their skin to falsely enhance breast size, or even in their butts which is becoming popular these days. Or put huge amounts of colourings on their faces to enhance their appearance.
Looking at it as an "animal growth drug" is also the wrong way to think about it. Trenbolone is an androgen receptor agonist. Thats its purpose. Now, is it disturbing to think a man would use a drug that increases masculine traits?
What you have to ask yourself is why does androgen receptor binding inhibit fat growth? This implies that natures phenotype design of being masculine is also to be lean.
Makeup is not going to cause liver failure, permanent hypogonadism, cancer, or a psychotic breakdown. Abnormally increasing androgen receptor signalling and/or abusing anabolic steroids can do all of those things.
DeleteRegarding plastic surgery, even this example within reason is much much much safer than using androgen agonists that abnormally alter the metaboilsm and endocrine system. This isn't like testosterone replacement therapy which replaces testosterone to the normal range. This making the body do what it should not do. A comparison to plastic surgery would be like hair plugs or a penile implant or some other superficial body modification. "Gear" or "juice" is very dangerous in comparison. The most dangerous part of plastic surgery is the acute anesthesia. Taking steriods is like getting major surgery (taking huge risk) every single day, and there is no stopping or turning back if you go far enough.
Masculinity is synonymous with leanness but we can't always get what we want. My history of PCOS in teen years has left me with a giant nose and jaw and thin hair, none of which is feminine ideal. Pretty well scientific fact a beautiful female face is infantile with large eyes, tiny nose and small jaw, rounded protruding forehead. Oh well, tough cookies for me. I'm not going to take a plane to brazil to remodel my face to make it more dainty mimicing a normal endocrine system throughout development. Opsie woopsie. I'll have to stick to my horrible evil face paint to fool everyone just like the rest of the universe ;)
Similarly, most men I see are not hulking brutes with 5% body fat and massive muscles. Most men are muscular, some are lean, some are chubby, some are fat. We all can't be model perfect.
(I have a feeling you were referring to me with the plastic surgery & face paint remark in typical passive aggressive fashion - this was required due to my history of severe obesity, and if not for this, never in a million years would I have had elective plastic surgery).
What can I say, steroids wouldnt be the first time in history men have engaged in "risky" practices/behaviour to improve sexual success. Although the risks of steroids are overblown and sensationalized.
Deletebtw I was only referring to you with the colorings/makeup comparison (which is moot since 99% of women use heavy makeup anyway), the plastic surgery thing was just a general observation for females. BTW I dont do personal attacks online. I have only respect for you Wooo, although I dont agree with everything you say :p
It seems to me that men who are obsessed with body building aren't doing it to attract women, because if they are, they're DOING IT WRONG. Seems to be an obsessional problem rather like an eating disorder; most men would agree very thin women are not as attractive as healthy / heavier ones, most women are not attracted to exaggerated musculature / dehydrated / overly spray tanned look (and *definitely* not to the body building lifestyle, and personality / behavioral affects of drug abuse). Athletic/fit does not equal body builder.
DeleteHow is it that whenever AAS are even mentioned someone shows up lamenting the supposed extreme dangers of them. Is it because they are illegal? Acetaminophen, for example, actually kills people but no one gives a shit if someone swallows a bunch because they have a migraine.
ReplyDeleteSpoken like a true AAS user................ (jk! :D )
DeleteAAS are like everything else in medicine, the dose makes the poison....abuse it and you pay the price.
It's not that, I just get frustrated with the FUD surrounding AAS. There are legitimate uses for them (various forms of muscle wasting, to counteract muscle loss that comes with old age (muscle mass is an independent variable for all-cause-mortality), for faster wound healing and improved tissue quality after healing, after trauma from car accidents or whatnot..), but classifying them the same way as opiates hampers research immensely. You have an easier time getting permission to compare the effects of IV caffeine and methamphetamine in healthy volunteers than to study AAS in an older population that would benefit from it.. IMHO the dangers are overblown, minimized if you add medical supervision and the possible benefits outweigh them by far.
DeleteRegarding recreational use, personally I don't see the point, because you probably can't keep the muscle mass you gained when you stop using them. Maybe fasten the time needed to get to your "maximal potential", muscle-wise, but I have no rush getting there. Otherwise, I think everyone should be able to do to their bodies whatever the hell they want. As long as it doesn't hurt others, why should anyone care.
It's because I know too much about the endocrine system and drugs to buy into propaganda that illegal anabolic steroids are as harmless as tylenol. The drugs are designed to increase androgen receptor signalling to supraphysiologic levels, and that's only discussing the *expected* effects of drugs (this doesn't even delve into purity / contamination / infection related issues implicit of street drugs).
Delete+1: the effects of nutrient partitioning on body composition are *real* things --> hormones and endocrinology are more important than energy balance (ie, CICO).
ReplyDeleteOn another note, I also agree with Wooo's tangent: pharmaceutical-grade ergogenic aids are fundamentally similar to an eating disorder.
I have been called out for "orthorexia" because I try not to eat flour and sugar, and for drinking whey shakes after strength training. The bar for what constitutes an eating disorder really isn't set all that high.. Adding the use of ergogenics what muddy the waters further because then a large part of professional athletes would have a disorder too.
DeleteI mean, the term becomes meaningless. How many people (or doctors, for that matter) would agree that low carb, let alone ketogenic diets, where overly restrictive eating indicative of an eating disorder?
all good points, I guess there's a large gray area. When I posted above I was setting the bar at 'what can get you arrested,' but orthorexia is more complicated, or might simply be in the eye of the beholder... In the blogosphere, the bar for orthorexia seems to be pretty low - according to wikipedia (sorry), orthorexia is associated with malnutrition or even death. Avoiding carbs = malnutrition? O_o
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