Something which I have come to appreciate about my body is that there is literally, no substitute for glucose restriction in producing fat loss. As a supplement junkie and die-hard self experimenter I have tried hundreds's of supplements and many strange lifestyle modifications in attempt to get my fat mass down.
And......NOTHING works........ absolutely nothing,.... so aslong as im still eating significant glucose.
Even 23/1 intermittent fasting stalled me out at ~10lbs weight loss.
I have even tried 2g metformin AND 5mg saxagliptin per day, these are major drugs for diabetics that are associated with weight loss. These are also quite high doses. but no, no weight loss. Then I added 30g inulin per day to my diet. But nope, still nout.
My body only works normally when glucose is restricted. Only then does my body act like that of a normal lean person, food is directed towards energy production instead of storage. Only when I restrict glucose is it IMPOSSIBLE for me to gain weight,. satiation signals become naturally in check, and cravings die down. If it wasnt for the fact I am addicted to carbohydrates and that ketosis reduces my sleep duration to 5hrs, I would stay in ketosis FOREVER.
Funny thing is, I do feel that some of these supplements/drugs help with weight loss, but I MUST be restricting glucose for them to have any affect. Basically, when my glucose intake is high, EVERYTHING else is completely trumped, and my body only wants to store fat and gain weight. For example, recently I was trying 2g metformin per day with a high-carb intake, NOT from junk food, but from potato's, sourdough bread etc. And despite my calories dropping to 1600 per day, no weight loss occurred.
High dose metformin is especially good at reducing food intake and increasing satiety btw, I can attest to this strongly. Metformin has been shown to be a strong inhibitor of AgRP. So if you insist on "cutting" calories to lose weight, you might wanna take some metformin to keep that AgRP down.
Anyway, the real motivation for this post was a tweet by Guyenet linking to this study . One line in particular in the abstract almost sent me into a Wooo-fueled rage.... .....
The success of the so-called 'low carb' diet that is usually high in protein can be attributed to the relatively high-protein content per se and not to the relatively lower carbohydrate content.
This is SOOOOOOO wrong. MY failure to flourish on high-carb diets has nothing to do with my protein intake. MY appetite for protein has always been large, typically I need ~100-120g of protein per day for normal satiety and normal mood, and its true that this need in independent of my carb or fat intake. BUT
BUT, a high glucose intake will totally fuck me up. Doesnt matter what my protein intake is. Doesnt matter what my fat intake is either. Let me say it again...
THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR GLUCOSE RESTRICTION
Even bariatric surgery ( sleeve gastrectomy ) is not a substitute for glucose restriction. Here the researchers are investigating if diet can possibly influence weight regain after sleeve gastrectomy. ( Given that weight regain DOES occur after sleeve gastrectomy surgery, is one of the many reasons I suffer from Calorie Denial Syndrome ).
So here we have obese Rats, then they receive sleeve gastrectomy, THEN after the surgery the rats get one of the following diets........
A ) chow ( CH )
B ) high fat + high Carb ( HF )
C ) Atkins-style lowcarb high fat. ( LCHF )
The results the researchers obtained were that, post surgery, the HF diet consistently results in higher weight regain, compared to either CH or LCHF.
In conclusion, consumption of a HF diet but not the more energy-dense LCHF diet reduced the effectiveness of VSG in rats.
Although its probably more correct to interpret these results as saying that only the combination of high-carb + high-fat is deleterious, and that this study does not argue for glucose restriction because chow also did not reduce the effectiveness of VSG, I nevertheless disagree.
There is clearly a reason the authors chose to use the word "carbohydrate" in the title of this study, and not the word "fat".
amen, brother!!! i have a whole galaxy of foods that give me trouble when it comes to weight loss, and -- whaddaya know -- they're ALL classifiable as "carbohydrates"....
ReplyDeleteExcellent post. I have started to look at the hidden carbs in my supplements, as an extra several carbs at lunch time is not beneficial to how my body works. At all.
ReplyDeleteI am experimenting with metformine on and off. I can't take more than 1/2 of gram without a gastric distress.
ReplyDeleteyes I had diarrhea when first taking metformin but it quickly went away after 2 days.
DeleteAlso you kinda need to eat some carbs with metformin, I noticed when I took metformin with a lowcarb meal I soon developed severe light headedness which I attribute to hypoglycemia.
Yes, LC + metformine = periodic hypoglycemia. What amount of carbs was enough for you to keep your BS stable while taking metformine? I also noticed it affected my ability to exercise comfortably for an obvious reason.
DeleteI found only a little was needed, like 20g. Also better if they come from high GI carbs, but people looking to control weight shouldn't ever eat high GI :D
DeleteThe light headedness mostly occurred after zero carb meals like bacon and eggs.
I take Metformin, and it does have side effects, but they are managaable. First, I check my blood glucose regularly, and Metformin does NOT cause hypoglycemia for me--and studies confirm this for most people. Metformin is an "insulin sensitizing drug"--it allows insulin into your cells, it doesn't lower blood sugar directily.
DeleteDiarrhea is another matter--it can be quite severe, especially at first, and the resulting loss of fluid may explain the dizziness and nausea some experience.
There are ways to reduce the diarrhea significantly:
1. Ask your doctor for the extended release version--it is less likely to cause side effects.
2. Start Metformin SLOWLY. Take the smallest possible dose and wait until you're tolerating that well before you increase the dose to the next lowest increment. It may take several weeks or more than a month to work up to a full theapuetic dose. Sometimes the diarrhea doesn't start immediately, so it can come as a surprise.
3. NEVER take Metformin without food. Some people find they have to have a little food in their stomach before taking Met--i.e. take it in the middle of the meal.
4. YMMV, but my personal experience is that too many carbs will cause an almost immediate reaction (explosive, liquid diarrhea in large volume). I say "it keeps me honest". And if I know I'm going to cheat (rarely), I skip my Metformin dose.
Thank you, guys. I decided to try metformine because my body got too efficient in the making sugar while I am in ketosis. It feels just fine especially when I exercise, but I am sure prevents future weight loss.
ReplyDeleteif your 1/2 gram gives you discomfort try taking it spread out 3 or 4 times a day
ReplyDeleteUm, LC only works because high/fat + high/protein foods are more satiating therefore you eat less and that equals to less CALORIEZ overall. Duh city!!!111
ReplyDeleteI kid. I kid. On a related note, what sort of supplements do you take to help with BG control?
I dont take any supplements to help with BG control since im not diabetic. I do however think that metformin is very useful even to just normal obese people.
DeleteI wrote a post before on how to help deal with postprandial BG spikes, on the other hand if I was diabetic my goal would be to get my fasting insulin down down down. So I would be following a very strict lowcarb diet but also with significant fiber. ( hence the inulin )
http://kindkehealthnotes.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/tricks-to-reduce-postprandial-glycemia.html
This post is so true. Carb restriction is the OnLy way I can lose weight and keep it off, but I haven't mastered how to stay on it. I will coast on LC for a month then I start getting low mood serious sugar cravings then I binge on carbs then I fall off the wagon, gain weight, and don't crave sugar as much because I'm eating it.My mood then improves, but I am carrying about 30-40lbs of extra fat. Sigh, I need LC fat camp.
ReplyDeleteim sure thats the cycle most people who lose weight with LC fall into.
Deleteit SHOULDNT be like that, carbohydrates should not induce vicious weight gain like this, it is only because weight loss does not cure the affliction of obesity. I have tested this myself and I definitely do not "overconsume" calories when going more higher carb.
We are not over-eating, what is happening is the carbs are blocking fat oxidation too much in obesity prone people. There is excessive stimulation of LPL post-meal in obesity prone people aswell as severely reduced post-meal fat oxidation.
The only solution to this is to avoid eating carbs so that fat oxidation is always maximal.
So much this.
DeleteBTW great post kindke. I've never attempted to lose weight on a high carb diet but I know int he past I was able to lose weight following a more moderate low carb diet, like 70-80 carbs... but because of blood sugar problems and swings I dont recommend at all.
Zanjabil, do you think your sugar cravings after a month of LC are physical or psychological? It's rare that cravings get worse with more time on LC, the opposite usually happens. Psychological cravings will get worse with extended abstinence sometimes.
DeleteAnother possibility is as you follow LC you are eating too little food so you feel hungry and moody (even if your hunger isn't a strong one like it is when your blood sugar is all over the map from carbs) and this leads to carb craving + binging.
@Z, it appears as if while you are eating few carbs, you are still a sugar-burner. This happened to me as I adapted to a LC diet, and even though I wasn't usually eating more than 80 grams carb, I still had some carb cravings. Rosedale has some suggestions for people in this situation. You might also look into other reasons for getting out of balance. I know that when I cannot sleep, the carb cravings come back, no matter what I had been eating.
DeleteFrom der protein study Guyunet tweeted;
ReplyDelete-------------------------------------------------------------
(i) sustained satiety despite negative energy balance, (ii) sustained basal energy expenditure despite BW loss due to (iii) a sparing of fat-free mass (FFM), being the main determinant of basal energy expenditure.
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This should have been published in the journal of broscience. The idea that fat free mass, by determining basal energy expenditure, will prevent body fat rebound is patent nonsense. Why do bodybuilders need a cutting phase, if this is true? Should be enough to cut once, and then the recomposed body ought to take care of itself. You might get to eat more while starving yourself to stay lean, but I doubt that will make the resulting hunger any more enjoyable. (I find when I need more, more seems like less anyways... so getting to eat more might not really amount to much, anyways).
One of the papers I read previously stated that organ mass accounts for 80% of resting metabolic rate. So like, brain, liver, heart, lungs, kidney -> thats where the vast majority of your energy expenditure is driving from.
DeleteBut yeh the paper was quite dumb.
Hi Kindke,
ReplyDeleteGreat post, thanks.
My general impression is that metformin & sax for weight loss is like swinging a wiffle-ball bat against a cubic foot of ice, whereas low carb is like a flame thrower.
On another note, what’s up with ketosis and sleep duration?! I don’t think I’m chronically ketotic, but I’m pretty sure I’ve experienced this.
all best,
Bill
the ketosis and sleep duration thing has me stumped, im not sure anyone knows how or why it happens. the only way I can get my sleep duration back is by spiking my insulin and eating some carbs.
DeleteInitially I had thought that it was something to do with both insulin and ketones suppressing the sympathetic nervous system. Basically if you get into that zone where insulin is low but also serum ketones are not very high, the SNS will go on a rampage and you will experience those cluster of symptoms related to anoerxia. I.E. feeling energetic, restlessness, urge to move, lack of appetite, weight loss.
I think it is a weight loss thing.
DeleteWhen eating 24/7 of cream and fat (gaining weight) I sleep well. It's only when I'm losing weight that I can't sleep. Assuming of course other culprits are addressed (e.g. hypoglycemia hypotension mineral loss).
This is true whether my diet is high carb or low carb... it only so happens I almost NEVER eat low enough calories of a high carb diet to lose weight or develop insomnia from it.
Kindke, you shouldn't link to KKK's site. You know what a hit whore she is and she'll assume that anyone who links to her site is a worshipper of her 'scientific acumen' [ROFLMAO]
ReplyDeleteCarole AKA CarbSaneR